Meet the Professionals - Calvin Betton
In this episode of Meet the Professionals, host Anastasia interviews Calvin Betton, a successful tennis coach who has guided his players, Henry Patten and Harri Heliovarra to Grand Slam victories. Calvin shares his journey from aspiring tennis player to becoming a head coach in tennis. He discusses the importance of realism in coaching, the emotional highs and lows of the sport, and the evolving role of coaches in tennis. Calvin emphasizes the need for strong relationships with players, the significance of grassroots coaching, and offers valuable advice for aspiring coaches. The conversation also touches on the challenges of promoting doubles tennis and the impact of coaching on the growth of the sport.
TRANSCRIPT
Anastasia (00:00)
Hello, ground passers, and welcome to another edition of Meet the Professionals, a series where we introduce and interview various people working behind the scenes in tennis. Coaches, physios, umpires, stringers, tournament directors, the lot, to give you a better understanding of how the sport operates beyond the players on court.
For this episode, we are joined by Calvin Betton, a two-time Grammy Award-winning. You know I'm recording this right after the Grammys, because I just said Grammy Award-winning. What I meant was Grand Slam winning. Hi, Calvin.
Calvin (00:41)
How's it going? Yeah, I don't have any Grammys yet,
but let's not write it out.
Anastasia (00:47)
You never know, you never know. I know you're a music buff as well. So maybe a second career could happen. Oh my goodness. Okay. Welcome to Groundpass Calvin. Calvin, you are a coach. You coach two men, British men's doubles players. coach Henry Patton, who's been on the podcast before. And then also Luke Johnson and
Calvin (00:49)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe. Let's see.
Anastasia (01:16)
I mean, you've coached Henry now to two grand slams. So how are you, how are you feeling as a coach?
Calvin (01:21)
Yeah,
it's been a pretty good start to the year and a pretty good second half last year as well, to be honest. Yeah, we've been pretty fortunate and we've had some good results and both Henry and Luke have had a great few months to be fair. mean, started this year in particular. Luke won the first week in Hong Kong. I was there with him then and then we flew to Australia and then Henry won in Australia, obviously. So it's been a pretty good.
Anastasia (01:28)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Calvin (01:47)
Pretty good few months.
Anastasia (01:49)
It's been an excellent start to the season, but let's start from the beginning because in this podcast series, we like to get into what it takes to do what you do. starting in the beginning, what did you want to be when you grew up, when you were little?
Calvin (02:07)
I was going back to the initial one. mean, I know the first time somebody asked me what I wanted to be, I said I wanted to be either a footballer or a cowboy. And I think neither of those things were going to happen. And then I actually had a real interest. I wanted to be a music producer when I was sort of early 20s and I just did some tennis coaching. mean, was coaching pretty seriously at the time.
Anastasia (02:20)
Mm.
Calvin (02:28)
but and then still playing quite a bit. But I was always aware when I was playing, I I played to a decent level. I played to sort of county regional level. But I always knew that I would go into coaching. It was just a case of when I went in pretty young. was only I think I started coaching when I was 22. And I straight away became a head coach at a local club. And I did that job for about eight years. So yeah.
Anastasia (02:40)
Okay.
Okay.
So how did that transition happen? How did we go from cowboy to tennis? How did tennis enter your life?
Calvin (03:02)
I
don't think there many cowboys where I live in the north of England. So I think that's probably put a stopper on that one. Um, but yeah, I mean, I, started playing tennis. only really started playing tennis to any sort of level when I was about 14. I always sort of had, you know, little knockabouts with my friends in parks and that kind of thing, but only actually start playing, going to organized sessions and that kind of thing when I was 14. So I was really late, um, to the sport. Um, but
I improved pretty quick and got to a pretty decent level in a short space of time. you know, I kind of, and I just really enjoyed tennis. So I kind of always figured that early on it would be part of the rest of my life, really.
Anastasia (03:44)
And, you know, so you started off as a player. Did you, because you said you were pretty good at your, when you were playing, did coaching immediately come after or what was that transition from, okay, I'm playing tennis to actually I'm going to be a coach.
Calvin (04:01)
So I mean, I was always pretty realistic about it. I knew I was decent, but I knew there were players who were way better than me that I wouldn't get to the level of. When I was playing these players, I'd know that if I'd lose certain matches, I knew I'd lost because I'd had a bad day. And I knew I'd lose some because I'm just nowhere near as good as these guys and I won't be. So that was fine. I always thought I had a pretty good brain for tennis.
Anastasia (04:21)
Yeah.
Calvin (04:26)
That's the one thing. mean, I was pretty when I was playing, I was pretty quick. I was pretty fast. And also I was pretty good strategically and tactically and mentally. I was pretty, pretty good. Like in terms of being a competitor, I used to get quite angry, but I was always a pretty very good competitor. I'd say it was just like, I mean, I just lacked probably the actual talent, the ability to play.
beyond what I was. So I always knew that if I wanted to go into coaching, strategically and tactically, I would always be pretty good. And that's kind of what I decided to do. So when I was still playing, which would have been around 1999, 2000, I was kind of playing. was doing OK in local money tournaments, that kind of thing, and getting by. But
Anastasia (04:53)
Right.
Calvin (05:15)
wasn't really pulling up any trees. And then the head coach's position came up at Bandsley Lawn Tennis Club, which is where I live and where I'd done quite a bit of training. So it was kind of one of those like, I had to make a decision really for myself. I take this and it's a pretty good job for what I want to come into in tennis or do I not take it? And then that kind of job might not come around for another five or six years. So yeah.
Anastasia (05:22)
Mm-hmm.
Right, right.
And it's like, I'll come to this later on in this interview, but that recognition so early on, because you said you were coaching at what, 22, like pretty early, that recognition that, know what, I'm okay at tennis, I think I'm good at tennis, but I'm never, you know, I might not be the greatest or I might not go further, but I have this other skill.
Calvin (05:55)
Yeah.
Anastasia (06:09)
What sort of advice do you have for younger people? And I mean, this could probably be even life advice in general, but to kind of be realistic and recognize that so early on instead of, you know, going through, yeah.
Calvin (06:24)
I mean, I don't know. mean, I guess, you you could
say that I think, you know, I don't think it's defeatist. I've always just been a bit of a realist. I knew that like if, look, if, I was 17, 18, and there was 12, 13 year olds, and this didn't happen regularly, but there was some 12, 13 year olds who would come and just be better than me at that stage, I'd go, you know, this is probably not, I'm probably not swinging this round. You know, I'm not, and you know, it's tough for someone who's, like I said, I started playing at 14. It's tough for someone who started playing at 14.
to actually get to where they need to go in tennis. I kind of, you you just kind of happen upon what your level is. It's the same in any sport, I think, you your level, once you get to a certain age, you don't start moving up. Like I was a pretty good, like I said, 21, 22, I was still winning, still doing okay in local money tournaments and making a bit of money for myself, but not in terms of ranking.
tournaments and that kind of thing. So it's unlikely that at 22 I was suddenly going to start tearing up the world ranking tournaments. You know, and I didn't see that as any negative thing or being defeatist or anything. It was more like, right, I know how to do this. But what I may be able to do is help some more players who eventually can do that.
Anastasia (07:24)
Right.
Right, right. Now, so you said you got a job at a club where they were looking for a head coach. You used to play there, but was there any training involved? I mean, I'm sure there is training to be a coach, right? To get to certain levels?
Calvin (07:45)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean,
I mean, think this is quite an important thing for for younger coaches that and again, I was no different. This is not me preaching because, you know, initially I thought I'd I'd have to play tennis and I saw therefore know how to coach. And so I mean, what the club told me that I had to take my coaching qualifications, which I did, but I wasn't entirely committed within that and thought I knew better all the time. And I wish that
Anastasia (08:08)
Mm.
Calvin (08:21)
I would have gone earlier into understanding how what being a coach is that it's not just knowledge about tennis, it's knowledge about communication and how people learn that you don't just tell them things. And most people who, who don't know what coaching is, they'll often come to me and you know, they'll, they'll say classic examples recently when, Djokovic hired Murray, they'll go, well, what can Murray tell, how can Murray, how can Murray tell Djokovic how to hit a forehand? Well, he doesn't need to tell him how to hit a forehand.
He's already won 26 grand slams or whatever it is with his forehand. That's not what coaching is. it, but I think that's what the layman often thinks, but it's not that it's so much more that it's understanding how to get information across, what the roles of a coach are. And probably for, I'd say for four or five years, I didn't know those things, but thought I just knew better. And then it was only over the course of even up until
I'd say probably the first 15 years of my coaching, no, maybe not that long, maybe the first 10, 12 years of my coaching, I didn't really sort of understand what that was. And it was only then when I took my level three coaching, which is the first one I took, and then level four, which I still was kind of in the same boat, it only when I went to my level five with some really good tutors.
who played a huge part in my development as a coach. That would have been in about 2011 that I started, they opened my eyes up to what actual elite coaching is and what the differences and coaching theory and that kind of thing. And it was sort of like a kind of Pandora's box moment really where I couldn't put the genie back in the bottle there. There was all this other area of like, this is what coaching is. It's not just standing there.
Anastasia (09:47)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Calvin (10:11)
and feeding some balls and saying follow through over your shoulder, good shot and that kind of thing.
Anastasia (10:17)
Right, right, right. So, you you've gone through the courses, you are, you the head coach at a club. How do you go from that to coaching a player on the ATP World Tour?
Calvin (10:32)
Um, so I think a couple of things, um, I put a lot of hours in, I put, and I was absolutely determined that that's what I wanted to do. I didn't really have much interest in coaching a country club or coaching the social coffee mornings and that kind of thing. I've had to do all that in, the pathway of coaching. I think most coaches have, but I knew that and some coaches want to do that because there's a lot of money in it. Um, but
I think my competitive instinct, just I've always had a burning desire to compete and to win things and to be in elite competitive sport. That was always the sort of the lightning rod really that just kept pushing me on. So there was that. took quite a lot of financial hits as well. I spent a lot of time helping out younger players who...
were good players, but couldn't necessarily afford the program that was needed to get them where they needed to be. And over time, started getting, I got a few county champions, and then there were a few national champions, a few juniors, like junior national champions, a few junior national number ones as well. And then some of those then start winning adult tournaments. And then over the kind of course I left the club where I was at.
And then I started, I moved to an indoor club in Leeds where, um, my friend was coaching and he asked me to come and run the performance program, um, at the indoor center in Leeds. Now, Luke Johnson was training there at the time. think Luke was about 15, 16. Now I'd known Luke for some time because he used to play against, um, the players that, um, I used to coach. Um, and we had a pretty good relationship and
Anastasia (11:58)
All
Calvin (12:22)
like that kind of thing. then as I was there, I never, didn't actually coach Luke too much there at the time. I helped him out a little bit and always supported him and that kind of thing. And then we kind of stayed in touch and we became pretty good friends. and then Luke went to, Uni America. He went to Clemson, which I've actually got Clemson T shirt on here that Luke gave me. and
Anastasia (12:43)
Yeah.
Calvin (12:45)
And then, so while Luke was there, we stayed in touch while he was there and I always supported him when I was going to tournaments. Like sometimes I'd be at tournaments with other players I coach and I'd always go and watch Luke's matches and support him. And then I was coaching another player full-time, one of the juniors I coached who won junior nationals, who then got sponsored. And I was basically, I coached him full-time for two years up until 2019.
And Luke at this stage had finished uni and he'd come back to, um, he'd come back to Britain and he was training at a place called Bath in the south of England, um, where they had some good coaches and some good players, but I think Luke wanted to move back up north. So in 2019, I stopped coaching the lad I was going to coach and I was just talking, just basically having a general conversation. think I have a text with Luke saying, yeah, I'm stopped coaching.
Anastasia (13:19)
Mm-hmm.
Calvin (13:36)
this lad who I've been coaching, this kind of thing. then back two days later, Luke phoned me up and said, I'm thinking about, I don't think I'll probably want to move back up north and maybe not train at Bath so much. And I wondered if you would, you would coach me while I'm up north now, because I didn't have anything on at that time. So, um, and I said, yeah, let's do it. You know, let's, and we, you know, we'd done work before, so it was nothing new and that kind of thing. Um, and that was at the very end of 2019. And then.
Anastasia (13:54)
Yeah.
Calvin (14:05)
So we did a pre-season together, which was really good. Then we did one trip to Tunisia, which was pretty good. And then COVID hit. So then we had basically about eight months of doing nothing. But then the first tournament back, after COVID, we went to Portugal. Luke and I, there were two tournaments in Portugal. And...
Anastasia (14:13)
Mm. Right. And we're all at home.
Calvin (14:28)
I went with him and in the second week of those tournaments was where I met Henry for the first time. And Henry was just friends with Luke and a couple of the British lads. And I think we went out for a couple of dinners and a couple of lunches and got on well. Didn't actually start coaching Henry till about 18 months later, but yeah, so that's how I ended up meeting both of the lads who I coach.
Anastasia (14:33)
Okay.
So is that, you I'm just thinking now of maybe a young person taking up coaching, you know, they feel like this is something they want to do. Is that generally how these relationships form and start? meet people at tennis clubs or maybe you spot a junior. I mean, there isn't sort of a list, hey, Grand Slam champion looking for a coach, you know, kind of thing.
Calvin (15:15)
I don't know. mean, I think my sort of pathway has been pretty unique. I don't think most of the coaches who coach on the tour, think, they've all been better players than I was, I would think, although I was OK. But I think they've all been probably significantly better players than I was. But I think that kind of becomes irrelevant as well. But I think that's how they got into that space, really.
Anastasia (15:20)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Calvin (15:41)
that
they just know players from having played. And that's where a lot of coaches and who work with players, they played and then they stopped playing. And then one of the players who they played with asked them to coach them, which I think is probably one of the reasons why a lot of
Anastasia (15:52)
So the Novak
Murray thing wasn't really that much of a stretch.
Calvin (15:57)
No, I
think it was just, that was just a more, uh, think that kind of thing happens all the time at lower levels. But, um, I think it, and I also think that's one of the reasons why coaches don't develop too much. They never really feel they have to, you know, so when I started coaching 25 years ago, the, knew I had to get better as a coach because I don't, I don't want to be coaching at this club forever. I don't want to be coaching beginners. don't want to be coaching doctors at seven o'clock in the morning.
cold outdoor court. So how
Anastasia (16:28)
Right.
Calvin (16:29)
do get away from that? I to work harder. I have to start learning how to coach. I have to get my players better. Whereas I think a lot of coaches, they go straight from playing into decent coaching jobs with players and they just think, well, why would I need to get any better? I'm already at that place where I want to be. And I think it stifles them. think it's, I do think, like I said, think the two things about this kind of got me where I've got is that I have,
Anastasia (16:45)
Right, and they go from player to player.
Calvin (16:53)
I like say I wasn't that level of player, but also I think I'm certainly the only coach who I know who's on that tour, who's actually worked at a club for years. Like, no, I'm probably lying there. There are a couple of my friends who have, but, and then again, I can count them as very good coaches, but most of the coaches who I see, they've never actually done any coaching. And what I mean by coaching is they never actually had to do.
Anastasia (17:04)
Mm.
Calvin (17:19)
coaching that isn't performance coaching. Like even some of them they get, even the ones that do work in clubs, they go and they're straight away in as head of performance with the best juniors as opposed to, right, this is what you've got.
Anastasia (17:21)
Right.
Right, right. Yeah. So getting into the coaching job a little bit, because I think tennis is very much unlike every other sport where I feel like coaches are coaching a team of people and they're hired by an organization. You were hired by Luke, you were hired by Henry. It's like a very individual interaction or contract in that way. What do you think could be
the pitfalls of that or how do you navigate that sort of relationship as a coach? And what sort of advice would you give to someone trying to navigate that?
Calvin (18:12)
I think, again, I think that the relationship I have with Luke and Henry, and I started this with both of them, the agreement that we had is that we wouldn't have any disagreements about money. And we would say, look, I said to both of them, this is, let's have a conversation. Let's figure out what you can afford. And then if you can't, know, this is what I think would be an appropriate amount. And if you can't afford that, you tell me.
Anastasia (18:24)
Mm.
Calvin (18:37)
And if you can afford more than that at any stage, then you tell me. But, and then that's something that we've always stuck by and I trust them implicitly. And, and I said to both of them, like, we, all agreed, look, let, you know, it's a kind of British term, let's not take the piss out of each other. And I think that's something that we've always worked by and why we have such a trust and a great relationship that we've always been front up. And if it came to a stage, I know that at any stage, if they're both doing pretty well now, but before that, if it came to a stage where
you know, the money wasn't coming in and they couldn't afford it. And they said, look, I want to keep working you, but I can't afford this. Then I would have dropped down again. I'd have said, right, okay, this is we're in this project together. and this, you know, I'll make some adjustments and that kind of thing. So I think that that, and again, I think that that is quite unique. I don't have contracts with either lads. I've coached them both now in the longterm, but we don't have contracts. We don't even have an agreed.
This is, know most coaches have an agreement. This is the amount of weeks that they will do. We don't do that with both players. say, you let me know when you want me and I'll be there. And they're good friends with each other as well. And you know, we can, we've never come to any disagreements on weeks that I'll do with either one of them. And that applies as well now, I think as well with, I also coach work with Harri when we're away, Harri has his own coach, Boris, who's a good friend of mine. But when we travel and Henry does the same deal with Boris and
Anastasia (19:35)
Mm.
Right, yeah, I feel like this is
Hmm.
Calvin (19:59)
When I'm away, Harri is the same thing. I say, look, this is how it's going to be. I think I've just found that it works well. But in order to do that, you have to have a trust and responsibility with each other. And we do. I'm extremely lucky in that regard that both lads who I work with, or with Harri as well, or three lads who I work with, they're very good people. And I think that that has helped. And that's been the luckiest aspect of my career that I've had.
Anastasia (20:28)
And is that kind of, because even listening to you talk, feels like, I mean, you're part of the team. It's almost like an investment for you in a sense. Like, is that something, you know, you would encourage, you know, if you find someone that you really believe in and you want to coach, are you just also partly investing in their success a bit?
Calvin (20:51)
Look,
I mean, they have to go out and win the matches and it's their ability and it's their ability and everything. And they may still even do that without me there. I wouldn't be egotistical enough to think that I'm so important that they wouldn't get by without me or anything like that. But at the same time, I do know that I'm quite a
a big character when I'm coaching in hopefully in a good way. And I think I kind of steer the ship as well. But that's all I do. I drive the ship. But they're the parts and they're the engine and all the good stuff that comes with it. But I know there are times where
Anastasia (21:28)
Right.
Calvin (21:35)
And look, we're the same as players. We're the same as we have to keep our emotions in track. We sometimes have bad days. We sometimes have good days. And I think we're only human and that kind of thing. But it encapsulates. I think coaching encapsulates everything. So yeah.
Anastasia (21:52)
Yeah, yeah. This brings me to sort of, you know, I think whatever career it is, we always tend to look at only the bright parts. Like you won two Grand Slams, yay. You know, what do you think the hardest parts of your job is or what has been sort of difficult moment in your career as a coach?
Calvin (22:16)
Look, I mean, in doubles, especially, there's a lot of highs and there's a lot of lows. It's, you the emotions are up and down. We've had some, some great times this year, but we've had some pretty bad ones as well. know, like we've, US Open wasn't great. We like played like, played pretty bad when we lost in US Open. I say we, because like, you know, like, like you say I can't count myself as a part of the team when we're winning and not when we're losing. You know, we, we had a bad day there and like,
Anastasia (22:30)
Mm.
Right?
Calvin (22:43)
And then there are days where you don't have bad days, but it just like, just doesn't work out. Like I remember a couple of things at the end of the year, like the Beijing final, when we played actually, Bollelli and Vavassori in the final and played great. Henry and Harri played great tennis in that. And somehow it was just one of those where the double scoring system, we absolutely battered them for about 85 % of the match. And then 10 minutes later we'd lost. And I think like afterwards, I remember being shell shocked and thinking, how does that happen?
Anastasia (23:11)
Tennis.
Calvin (23:12)
How has that happened? And then a similar
Anastasia (23:12)
Tennis.
Calvin (23:14)
thing happened in Vienna in the semi-final. For about a set and a half, Henry and Harri played, I think, as good as it's possible for anybody to play doubles. They were absolutely different level to anything I've seen. And then a bad 10 minutes, and we were in a tie break. And then even in the tie break, we were up and then lost that. And you feel it's pretty bad. It's quite strange, though.
Wimbledon and the Aussie Open were great moments and Turin was great as well. in the moment, you don't think about winning slams, you know, so I was probably as elated when Luke won in Hong Kong as I was at the end of the Aussie Open. Yeah, given like five minutes after that, you start thinking, geez, it's a grand slam. It's another slam. And I think the only, you know, maybe it's a bit different because you're there longer. You feel like
Anastasia (24:03)
Yeah.
Calvin (24:08)
you've been at the tournament a long time, but, I know that like when Luke, when his first tournament in, in Metz, his first tour tournament, that was, you know, was so happy about that. And so over the moon that you don't think at the time, well, you know, you don't celebrate like, cause it's a bigger tournament. Cause actually in the moment it's just, even we've had like second round matches where I've been fired up. Um, know, think in, I think it's quite, it was quite a journey, but the first round in Adelaide, like
Anastasia (24:31)
Yeah.
Calvin (24:37)
Like we got me and Harri in that one got really fired up because they saved, I think, six match points in that match and won. But, so you don't, you know, it's just ups and downs. You know, I don't necessarily look, I'm single and I don't have any family. So I imagine the worst parts of it are you don't get to be around your family or your other half, but that doesn't actually hit me too much. So I don't mind being away and
Anastasia (24:59)
Right.
Calvin (25:03)
You know, I quite enjoy it and it's kind of the life I've chosen. And to be honest, I don't really know how to do anything else and I don't much want to either. in terms of what are the, I don't know if there are any bad parts other than losing. I hate losing. that's the bad, that's the worst part. But I'm also, you know, I've kind of got to understand, you know, I have become more philosophical with it. said to Luke, Luke lost, Luke and Sander, his partner lost in Montpellier.
Anastasia (25:11)
Mm-hmm.
Right, right, yeah.
Calvin (25:33)
a couple of days ago and they lost 10-6 and yeah, I was gutted for them. know, I was gutted, but I said to them, I was like, we were probably due one, you know, because I think they'd won, they've won seven match tie breaks in a row. Like over Metz and Hong Kong, they won seven out of those eight matches in match tie breaks. And, you know, kind of that the other day and also in, in the Aussie Open when they lost to
Anastasia (25:46)
Mm.
Calvin (26:01)
Doumbia and Reboul and they lost in two set tie breaks there. And I said to them again, know, like, we've got to take the roof with us, we've won a lot of those close tie breaks and they have won a lot. And I'd say the same that if you're winning about 65 % of the match tie breaks, you're having a pretty good time of it. If you're winning 70, you're having a really good time of it. So to be winning a hundred percent and then losing one, you know, you've kind of got to, yeah.
Anastasia (26:05)
Mm.
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Calvin (26:30)
It's one of them.
And I think it makes a lot
of difference as well on the tour. Last year, think that Mektic and Koolhof who I think ended the year as the fourth best team, they won 14 out of 17 match tie breaks, I think. And you think, what does a year look like if they only win 60 % of those?
Anastasia (26:43)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Calvin (26:58)
They only lost three all year and they lost two of them to Henry and Harri.
Anastasia (27:01)
Okay, let's look a little bit towards, you know, the current game a bit and the future. think so, Ground Pass specifically, we target newer fans to the sport or maybe people coming back into it. And for people coming back into it, coaching has never been a thing. But I think over the last few years or couple of years anyway, I feel like coaches in general have come more to the forefront because
coaching in tennis is now legal, it's allowed. What have you thought of that process where, you know, it's gone from, just trying to put mics in the stands and having coaches yell at their players from high above the stands to what the Australian Open did where they put you right on court. You were right there and you could, you know, they could walk up to you and talk to you.
Calvin (27:51)
mean that, to be fair, that was no different to me really because the courts where we normally play on, I'm in exactly the same place. So there's no major difference there for me at all in that. I use the iPad a little bit, but not loads. I do think it's a great idea that they're trying to involve coaches more. I think that there's a lot to add. think viewers would like to hear what coaches are saying. think whether that be with interviews before.
Anastasia (27:54)
Really? Yeah.
Mm.
Calvin (28:18)
and during the match and also like to hear what they're saying to their players. Often it's, there's not a lot to say, know, often like 90 % of it is, yeah, 90 % of it is this one, let's go right here. know, I think it's just one of those things. Yeah. But I think, you know, there are some characters who are coaches and I think that it would, you know, when you're hearing from NBA coaches during the match and that kind of thing, I think that's a great addition, then why not add like one.
Anastasia (28:25)
You're doing great.
right now.
Calvin (28:44)
Let's have some tennis coaches talking.
Anastasia (28:46)
Right, I was gonna say because most sports here in the States, you know who the coaches are. You know a team and you know who the coach is. So I think it's very interesting. I like it. I like to kind of, I love behind the scenes in general of everything. So it's nice to sometimes hear what people are talking about. Even though I know we're probably not gonna get a lot because it's all tactics and strategy and.
Calvin (28:51)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think like when
I know when the doubles guys in Washington last year, they played around with mic'ing them up for it. But I think most of it was I think what most people like were disappointed in the 95 % of it is just going reg T stay. Let's go I wide cross. And that's that's all they got. And
Anastasia (29:16)
Yes. Yep.
You
So yeah,
I loved it. I actually interviewed Henry and Harri at the Citi Open last year. And I interviewed them before. Yes, yes, it's all, it was all me. But I talked to them before they did the little experiment thing. And yeah, you're right. For me,
Calvin (29:37)
Okay.
Should I blame you for that performance then that they put in? Because that was probably the worst match they played all year.
Anastasia (29:54)
And I think as a viewer who's new to the sport, watching it on TV, I just wanted someone to explain, what does ITY, what does that mean? Someone, you know, if there's like a little graphic that says this is what that means or whatever, I think there's a future in it because I don't know, you learn a little bit more about the game, about the sport that you love and.
Calvin (30:17)
Yeah, I I think that the commentary, to be fair on doubles that I've heard in the last year has been in the main absolutely ridiculously bad. Like it's not. watched around at Christmas time. I watched the Wimbledon semi and the final over three days. And that's the first time I'd actually watched the match with commentary. And I couldn't believe in both matches how bad it was. Like there was no information at all. And I said to, so I said to,
Anastasia (30:26)
Mmm.
Yeah
Calvin (30:44)
At the Australian Open, I saw a little bit of a clip of the semi-final when Henry and Harri played Krawietz and Pütz And I saw Robbie Koenig the next day, he was commentating on it. And Robbie, in the commentary he mentioned, he said, like, that's Calvin, Henry's coach. And I said to Robbie the next day when I saw him that the lads had been on
Anastasia (30:51)
Mm-hmm.
Calvin (31:07)
Henry and Harri had been on, so they won Wimbledon, so they had six matches there. I think the last four matches had commentary on them. So that's four matches there. I think one of the matches in the US Open did, maybe the third round, commentary on it. The all four matches they played in Turin had commentary on, which I watched all of those back. And then the quarterfinal in Australia had commentary.
Anastasia (31:13)
Mm.
Calvin (31:32)
And the semi-final of Australia was the first time that any commentator mentioned my name in all of those matches. Yeah. And that's not just me. That was like in the Wimbledon final. The Wimbledon final had three hours of tennis and not once did they mention any of the coaches names. And the cameras kept going to the boxes. They kept going there. The only person they mentioned was Leighton Hewitt because he was there as Australia Davis Cup captain.
Anastasia (31:39)
Really?
Right.
Calvin (31:58)
in Turin you have two cameras on you all of the time and wasn't mentioned. No, no coaches were mentioned. And he think like, come on. And I've only had in all of the, in all of the commentary. No, I, I tell a slight lie there because in Beijing, a friend of mine, Anne Keothavong, who's I guess she's a friend of mine. she messaged me before the Beijing semi-final and said, I'm commentating on the match.
Anastasia (31:58)
Bray.
Yeah.
Could be better. It could be better.
Calvin (32:23)
Can you give me some background and info on your team and on the other team? And that's the only time that any commentator before Australia, if you in Australia asked me, Matt Pedgey asked me, think Robbie Koning asked me as well. That's the only time up until that point, no commentator had asked me for any info. And that's fine if they have their own info. But when you see they're on and they don't, and they're just waffling for...
Anastasia (32:27)
Yeah.
Right.
Correct. Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah.
Calvin (32:51)
for an hour
and a half, you think, come on, like you're getting paid for this. It's not really an acceptable job to be doing this. And I know some of the commentators, that's not to task some of the commentators, because I know some of them who haven't commentated on doubles. But I've worked with a few commentators and I know that some of them are excellent in their research. But the people who were doing the doubles matches were not. And shamefully, it's the bigger names.
Anastasia (32:57)
Right.
And, you know, I think I might let you go a little bit on sort of like the state of the doubles because I think, you know, having this information, if I'm just, you know, someone at home watching the TV and someone's commentating on doubles and I can get some sort of information about like, who are these players? What are their, you know?
Who's the coach? What are they talking about? Like, what's their strategy? What's their, you know, all that stuff, I think it helps sell the game a little bit. you know, I got into doubles a lot last year after talking to Will Boucek He's the, he runs the, yeah, Will, Will is awesome. And we had him on the podcast. And to be honest, I watched the Bryan Brothers. Like that was my doubles. I watched the Bryan Brothers and whenever Serena and Venus played together, that was, you know.
Calvin (33:53)
I know, Wil, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Anastasia (34:07)
That was
it. And, you know, he sort of forced me a little bit or shamed me, if you want to say to like, wait a second, I watch a lot of tennis. I watch a lot of tennis. Why am I not including doubles in it? And through that, I found, Henry and Harri, and it was so fun watching them through Wimbledon. was, mean, it was such a nice story, you know, and I feel like that sells the sport a bit too, but what do you think can, as a doubles coach,
Calvin (34:28)
Yeah, yeah.
Anastasia (34:35)
can be done better to sell the double story. Because I think there's so much there that is just left on the table.
Calvin (34:41)
Well, the first thing they can do
is actually try to sell it and make an effort because that isn't happening at the minute. And not only is it not happening, there's actually concerted effort to not sell it by certain people within the ATP's executive sphere, I guess. We get the feeling that they're just trying to close it down and all we hear is the product's crap.
The product doesn't work. And I don't know what that means. It's a bit corporate speak, but I don't think the product's bad at all. I know from the matches I've watched, I know from the comments that I get from hundreds of fans. I know from being at tournaments, I've been in stadiums. I've been in Bucharest last year when Henry and Harri, an Englishman and a Finn, played two Frenchmen in the final four hours before the singles final and the stadium was full.
Like those people haven't come to wait around three hours. They've come specifically to watch a doubles match. I've been on center court at Wimbledon when they won Wimbledon. I've been on number one court in the semi-final. People came to watch it. I've been at the Australian Open this year where bizarrely the Australian Open, the way it's organized, is bit strange because in the first three rounds you get everyone, the stands are always full to watch doubles.
Anastasia (35:41)
Yeah.
Calvin (35:56)
And then when they put them on the bigger stadiums, there's less grounds passes being sold. So you don't have anybody watching them. But the first two rounds, and that's all of the match, every single doubles match I watched, and I go out on the grounds and watch quite a bit, the stands are always packed. People like to watch it. And no one will convince me that people aren't interested and that people don't have a thirst to learn more about it. And I think the most important thing as well is that doubles players are interesting characters.
Anastasia (36:10)
Yeah.
Calvin (36:22)
And there's real characters there and there's a real natural drama and intrigue and story just because of the nature of it. Two people. Sometimes they don't get on. Sometimes they get on great and then don't get on again. Sometimes they get poached by other partners and that kind of thing. I think that I said at the time and I've said it many times since that tennis really made a mess up with that Netflix series. The real drama would have been the real show.
Anastasia (36:31)
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Calvin (36:49)
would have been on the doubles tour. But what you got is you've got a watered down anodyne PR advert where you had agents basically telling the cameras what they could ask, what they could see and that kind of thing. And it wasn't based in any form of reality. If you'd have put that on the doubles tour, I genuinely think you'd have had one of the best sports documentaries that we've seen.
Anastasia (36:51)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Right, right. Hopefully they'll bring it back. I think the biggest thing with that was the producers just never watched tennis before. So that's your first barrier.
Calvin (37:22)
Well, they didn't get any story either. You know, like I know that when you
compared it to the other, like the golf and the Formula One one, you got a story going throughout a season. Whereas on this one, they were just one off episodes that weren't real. And they were months after and everything that happened in it. There was nothing that, nothing that happened in the show that people didn't already know. But yeah, I think if anybody wants to fund a documentary on any sport doubles tennis is the one I think.
Anastasia (37:30)
Right. That's true. Yeah.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like Netflix, they need to give it another shot because it could have been so good. It's one of the most painful things, but that's another episode. It's another episode of the podcast. just to, I have a couple more questions here just to sort of wrap up talking about your tennis career and coaching a little bit. What advice, know, someone coming up, I really, you know, I have to say, I do love your approach to it in the sense that, you know,
Calvin (37:55)
Yeah.
Anastasia (38:17)
You say most coaches currently are players who really didn't then make it and now they're just coaches. But what advice, if there's someone like you or listening to this who feels like, okay, this is a way to do it, where I actually focus on being a coach, what advice do you have for young people trying to do that?
Calvin (38:36)
I
mean, it's just, I'd say just learn how to coach, understand the theory of coaching and read and study it. And even if you have to go to university and study sports coaching, I never actually did that because it was, I thought I knew too much too early, but later on I went and, and read all the books about the coaching, the theory of coaching and that kind of thing and how to organize practices, how to plan practices and
how people develop and how people learn and that constraint led coaching and affordances and that kind of thing. And it was long and it was boring. But it's something I had to do and I'm a better coach because of it. And also when you come across good coach educators, good tutors and mentors, listen to them. Don't just think I know better than them and come across like a bit of an idiot like I've done at times and go, well they're
Who have they ever coached? That's not what it's about. It's not linked to that. They don't have to have coached anybody if they understand how people learn things. And look at other sports. I spent years going into other sports, obscure sports like sailing and rowing and canoeing and football and basketball and bobsleigh and that kind of thing. And seeing how they coached and
Anastasia (39:53)
Mm-hmm.
Calvin (39:55)
how they went about things. You have to put the hours in and yeah, you have to take a financial hit because of it. But if you do, and yeah, on top of it as well, you've also got to be a good coach. You have to know the sport as well and have an understanding of strategy and moments and that kind of thing, which I think I do have a natural ability to that. It's not just all hard work. It's like being a tennis player as well. It's not just hard work and you'll get there. I think I work pretty hard, but...
I also think that the main reason I've had a bit of success recently is because I'm a good coach as well. I know what I'm talking about.
Anastasia (40:32)
Right, right. This is a question that, that was really great, but this is a question that came up in a recent episode we do, and I've been thinking about it ever since, you know, this might be out of left field a little bit, but there's this sort of issue of sort of growing the sport of tennis.
but maybe even through coaching. In the States here, I don't think you have it that much in the UK, but in the States here, we have a pickleball problem, if that's what you wanna call it. I just think all racquet sports fine, but we do have this sort of inundation of pickleball taking over tennis courts and things like that. And someone came up and I was talking to someone about it and their thought was, well, there aren't that many good
grassroots coaches that can help people who become fans of tennis start playing tennis and then keep them being, you know, to grow the sport that way, if that makes any sense. So, you know, for example, just to, instead of making sure they can rally, it's more sort of like you're holding it wrong or whatever. Do you think grassroots coaches?
have any sort of impact on the growth of the sport, like coaches who are in a club, like the one that you were talking about?
Calvin (41:51)
I mean, yeah, hundred percent. And I think it's a different kind of job. It's something that I was never particularly good at, like being the sort of pied piper and that kind of thing and bringing in loads of loads and loads of kids and keeping them involved in that kind of thing. I was always too focused on, right, is he, is he any good? He's good. He's good. He's good. I'm taking those three. They'll be the players I work with. and you know, it's, it's, it's a different kind of gig to what, to what I do. And that's not remotely to dismiss it. I think it's equally as important.
Anastasia (41:56)
Mm.
Right.
Calvin (42:18)
for the sport even more important than probably what I do. But I do think, yeah, it's a major issue. think particularly in the States as well is that from what I know, the coaches, they tend to just get tempted by the country clubs where they can charge a fortune. And that's not really bringing too much into the sport. You're coaching somebody who's already quite rich, but I don't really know.
Anastasia (42:37)
Yeah.
Calvin (42:41)
how you get around that. And I know that the coaching that I see from the States isn't particularly great either. That the coaches in America are not, from my experience, they're not particularly open to learning new coaching skills, especially the older generation.
Anastasia (42:59)
Right, Work in progress, work in progress, but Calvin, mean, okay, you've won two Grand Slams, what's next? four, 26?
Calvin (43:06)
Yeah, three, three, four, five.
Yeah. I mean, look, we don't really, we, don't really set goals massively. have natural goals that you want to aim. Like, like Luke, think is, he's now 50 in the world. His, his next time would be top 30 to try and so he's playing in all the masters. Like he's now getting in all the slams, touch wood, you know, you, you never know. you hope that they're all playing all the slams, but
and he's now playing all the slams and he's getting most of the 500s, he's now a case of trying it in the Masters and Henry and Harri, the obvious one is, from where they are now, is world number one. That would be a nice touch and more slams, more Masters. They still haven't won a Masters. They've not been past the quarterfinals of a Masters yet because they just haven't played any. So this will be the first time that Henry is going to have played a full year of Masters.
So he didn't play Indian Wells last year. He didn't play Miami last year. He's never played Indian Wells, never played Miami, he's never played Madrid. He played Rome, but they got in on the morning. So they flew on the morning of their match. Yeah. So, you know, and I think it's also like, I think as well what people don't realize with the doubles tour is that how crazy it is. Like Luke just messaged.
Anastasia (44:10)
I think I remember that story. tennis.
Calvin (44:25)
me an hour ago saying they've got into Rio him and his partner and he was saying that so his four weeks will be France America France Brazil So so he played he played Montpellier then they got into Dallas didn't didn't get into Rotterdam but got into Dallas so go to Dallas and then playing Marseille and then won't get into
Anastasia (44:37)
Wait, Right.
Dallas.
Calvin (44:51)
What's the next won't get into Doha and Dubai, but we'll get into Rio. Yeah. So, and I think, you know, when you talk about, yeah, I mean, the crazy thing though, with Rio is it's actually only three hours different from the UK. So Rio is actually not bad. It just takes ages to get there. But, but yeah. Yeah.
Anastasia (44:55)
to Rio.
And I complain about time zones when I have to watch the tennis.
Right, not bad, right. That just seems, that's like a cross, that's just back
and forth. Wow.
Calvin (45:15)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I don't
think it's what anyone would want to do, but it's kind of like you play what you can get in. So yeah.
Anastasia (45:21)
Right, Okay.
Well, this has been an awesome interview, Calvin. Thank you so much for coming on Groundpass. I learned a lot. I could have talked for longer, but we have to be respectful of time. So yeah, thank you for coming on Groundpass and I hope to see you somewhere on the grounds somewhere.
Calvin (45:37)
Yeah sure
yeah but thanks for having me it's been a pleasure really appreciate you giving me the time and yeah if you see me at one of the tournaments come and say hello.
Anastasia (45:40)
course.
Will do
